Difference between revisions of "2023-01-18: Dial Up A Monster"

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<Pose Tracker> Banagher Links has posed.
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Banagher's paler than he has been, the past day. After what he and Leina saw in Alaska, the thought of dialing up Elisa is terrifying. How bad does someone have to be for /Leina/ to consider them a monster? Bad enough to summon void-shaped dragons, apparently.
 
Banagher's paler than he has been, the past day. After what he and Leina saw in Alaska, the thought of dialing up Elisa is terrifying. How bad does someone have to be for /Leina/ to consider them a monster? Bad enough to summon void-shaped dragons, apparently.

Latest revision as of 05:03, 28 February 2023

  • Cast: Banagher Links, Leina Ashta, Elisa Kafim
  • Where: Medbay/The Silent Castle
  • Date: U.C. 0097 01 18
  • Summary: With the Institute Raid on the horizon, Banagher and Leina risk a phone call with one witch of the void.

<Pose Tracker> Leina Ashta has posed.

It is a full day after Banagher awakened from his injuries caused by taking an anti-fleet reaction missile to the Unicorn.

And now with him still in a hospital bed, Leina warns him, "Okay, Banagher. I want you to just remember. She doesn't care about issues of morality. And emotional arguments to her won't work - unless they come from a place of caring for Yuliana."

A beat.

"... If you ever feel anything strange about me, disconnect immediately. I'll do the same if I feel anything off for you."

She double-checks just to be certain, "Keeping all this danger in mind - you're sure you want to go forward with this?"

Assuming he consents, she sets up the phone on the bedside table, sits on the bed alongside Banagher, grabs his hand and squeezes it, takes a deep breath, and-

Dials up a monster.

Ring ring, ring ring.

Once it comes on, she smiles at her, "Doctor Kafim, it's a pleasure to see you again. I'm sorry to disturb you but after what happened - we wanted to inquire about Yuliana? Is she well? We're both... quite worried given how she was doing when we last saw her. "Oh - ah I'm not sure if you remember him from JOSH-A but this is Banagher Links, he's my boyfriend."

All of that at least comes from a place of utmost sincerity.

Leina for her part is wearing a Haro T-Shirt and a pair of Jean shorts. She's in space and didn't exactly pack anything more 'business' like.

<Pose Tracker> Banagher Links has posed.

Banagher's paler than he has been, the past day. After what he and Leina saw in Alaska, the thought of dialing up Elisa is terrifying. How bad does someone have to be for /Leina/ to consider them a monster? Bad enough to summon void-shaped dragons, apparently.

Haro waits out of frame. Elisa doesn't need to know he exists. The little robot flutters around the sickbay room, a sticky note with Leina's notes stuck to his side.

-no emotional arguments
-call Yuliana 'your Yuliana"
-don't freak out
-if you feel different disconnect right away

Banagher kisses Leina's cheek. "Yes. I'll remember, and Haro's got the notes, too. I'm ready. I think this is important, for Yuliana's sake. I can't forget the way she looked at me, bleeding out like that." His eyes close for a moment, then open again. "At the very least, we can make sure she's okay."

Squeezing Leina's hand, Banagher settles in. He's dressed as casually as Leina -- thankfully, he always keeps a spare hoodie in the Unicorn, now. Dressed in a plain white shirt, jeans, and a purple hoodie with Sheryl Nome's logo over his heart, he certainly /looks/ friendly enough.

Ring ring, ring ring.

A smile is worked up to Banagher's face. It looks a little bit wonky, but it's serviceable, hopefully. He's doing his best to look normal and friendly. Even if Elisa is a monster... She cares about Yuliana. And Yuliana...

...

...he still doesn't know what to think about her. But he doesn't want anyone to suffer the way she has.

As Leina introduces him, Banagher inclines his head politely. "Hello, Doctor Kafim. As Leina said, um. I'm Banagher. It's nice to see you again -- I was at your wedding."

She probably knows that.

"But, yeah, we're really worried about Y-- your Yuliana. If it's okay to ask, please let us know how she's doing."

<Pose Tracker> Elisa Kafim has posed.

The good news, of course, is that Elisa has had time to wash off the blood. Some Yuliana's, some not, but none of it /here/, when the call is made. ...The cautions, of course, all make sense. Elisa assumes Leina is making some, before she calls.

But perhaps far more notable is the fact that she /does/ think of Leina and Banagher, at all, before they call.

"Good day," Elisa says when the call connects; she is in a stone room with some tapestries behind her, dressed all in black--a long dress, a cloak, though only her shoulders and up are visible. Her eyes are brilliant green... and there is something almost like fatigue in her expression. But that couldn't be.

"I remember," Elisa says first--does she mean Banagher? Does she mean what happened? She doesn't say.

"...Thank you for calling," she says after a moment, as if having to remember the 'script' for human interaction. Mostly because that's the case. She pauses, and then, "You did your best to aid her. I will remember that," Elisa says.

"It is fine to ask. I was able to stabilize and heal her. She is recovering still, but she, too, will remember your assistance."

She sighs. "You may have opinions on what we were attempting to do. That is fine. But know that my Yuliana's safety is paramount."

"...And it is particularly at risk, at this time. This number is secure, yes?"

<Pose Tracker> Leina Ashta has posed.

Leina immediately kicks herself for breaking her own rule on 'Your Yuliana' while Banagher remembers it. It's just so against her nature to say it.

It's okay, move forward. Move forward.

What does she remember? She doesn't even ask. "We did. It was obvious whatever was happening was harming her a great deal - even if we didn't understand it."

That's not entirely true, it was in part trying to stop what was happening for other reasons as well, but no need to put that out there.

Leina then breathes a sigh of relief, and squeezes Banagher's hand more tightly, "I'm glad that she's alright - that's, that's a relief."

She answers the latter question first, "You will find few lines more secure."

Leina reassures her, and that's actually quite true, Sayla made certain of that. "... I understand that's your priority - to preserve the life of your Yuliana. Which made things... confusing. Did something go wrong? She indicated she was pushing herself too hard for your sake..."

Another pause.

"What you were trying to do, she must have felt it was more important than her own health and safety."

<Pose Tracker> Banagher Links has posed.

Banagher's only seen Elisa up close twice, and one of those times was when he was only half-conscious. All the same, the exhaustion on her face doesn't quite seem right. Her outfit is very impressive, though -- and are those tapestries, against a stone wall in the background? Is... Elisa living in an actual castle? Do those /exist/ anymore?

"I'm just glad it was enough to help." Banagher says, looking away from the tapestries to Elisa again. "I'm so glad you were able to," A little, noticeable pause, as Banagher wonders if this 'healing' was like the video games Takuya was always trying to talk Micott into. "Heal her. That's really good news. And, um, thanks! It's nice to be remembered... for this stuff."

Banagher knows better than to deny a gift like that.

"It was horrible watching her suffer that way." He adds, quietly, squeezing Leina's hand in return. It's almost a signal between them -- call and response. "Yes, your Yuliana mentioned that she had to keep going, because you loved her so much."

...Yuliana's safety is in danger? That seems hard to believe, with what they all witnessed Elisa do. "Is someone threatening her? I know the REA is... intense, about people who choose to leave."

Newspaper clippings, scattered over Leina's desk. He'll never forget.

<Pose Tracker> Elisa Kafim has posed.

If Elisa noticed, she doesn't say as much. Perhaps she didn't. That would be a nice thing to believe.

"Yes," Elisa agrees, "It was." She considers Banagher, refocusing her eyes as if seeing him for the first time. By the time he looks back at her, he has her scrutiny. "It would not have been," she admits. "Your scarf, while nobly meant, could only stem some of the bleeding. Nevertheless, you made the effort. That... matters."

For this stuff.

But few lines more secure... "Good," Elisa says. "Our facility here is also quite secure. Regardless, caution is warranted. I do not wish to harm more of my Yuliana's countrymen than is necessary."

Horrible... And yes. What went wrong?

"My Yuliana... has been conditioned greatly by her country, to believe that results are more important than her life. She does not--or did not--truly understand just how vital she is."

"It is true that our goal is important. It is true that I am willing to risk much in its pursuit. But not her. We will face what is to come together, or not at all."

"...I will be considering how best to shield her. For this reason I must soon begin my work. But it is... good, that you have contacted me first."

"So yes. Something went wrong. The situation did not unfold as expected. There are ways that I can address this. But first, I must know..."

"Have you made progress on your intentions as regards the Institute? It is quite urgent now."

<Pose Tracker> Leina Ashta has posed.

Leina looks sidelong at Banagher, and smiles as Elisa notes he made the effort, and that matters.

There's a lot that could be said for that, especially so that it was enough that even someone like Elisa noticed.

"Yes. G-Hound is... upset. All they will see are just more individuals summoning monsters, to try to destroy the world. And I doubt the REA can simply dismiss their pressure."

Leina says as she describes the political situation, before she frowns, and-

"... Horrible. I'd already surmised such but... even Glemy would recall those people he considered weapons if their lives were at risk. The contradiction of telling her she's a valuable asset then - training her to throw her life away at a moment's notice."

There's this shake of her head... and then she lets Elisa talk, there are questions, many questions she wants to ask on that. What her goal is, what she was trying to do, for now though-

"At our current rate of progress I estimate we will be ready in about two weeks time." Leina confirms to her, then cautions, "I cannot guarantee this timeline to a certainty, but I believe it will not deviate much."

After considering it for a time, she then adds, "... Given how tense the situation is right now, it would perhaps be best if she didn't leave your protection until this is over. I understand that you want to respect your Yuliana's free will - but her leaving your presence right now would be... a mistake, I feel."

<Pose Tracker> Banagher Links has posed.

That scarf was a Christmas gift, though... it's probably beyond repair, now. Not to mention carrying pretty horrible memories. "I don't have any medical or first-aid training, so wrapping her wrist in my scarf was all I could think to do. Leina was way more on top of things." He says, with a smile toward his girlfriend.

Banagher grimaces as Leina invokes Glemy's name. "I never thought someone would be worse than /him/. I... can't believe how cruel those people are." He trails off for a moment, getting a handle on the spike of emotion from what was done to Leina -- and Yuliana.

"After -- everything the REA has done to her. All that brainwashing and torture--" He saw the wounds reopen. There's no way all those scars were from combat. "You don't want to hurt them?" Banagher frowns, looking more confused than upset. "Why? I assumed anyone who even laid a finger on your Yuliana,"

Haro flutters closer to the camera. Banagher glances up at him, and takes a quick breath. Don't get emotional. "Would be on... some kind of list."

Hopefully that's a polite enough way to put it. Elisa talks about beginning her work, and Banagher manages to suppress a shudder. Whatever that means, it can't be good...

"Two weeks is a long time to wait, in this case." Banagher says, quietly. "Is there somewhere safe you can take your Yuliana to wait, while you, um. Do your work? I can't imagine they won't try something. Some kind of concealed base, or protected facility..?"

Banagher glances at Leina again, before speaking up. "As much as I'd like to be there to help with taking down the Institute, I can't risk myself or the Unicorn being captured. But I fully support Leina in doing this. Labs like this are -- hideous. They deserve to all be wiped out."

<Pose Tracker> Elisa Kafim has posed.

Elisa notices the way they act together. It is plain for even one such as her to see their affection. ...It makes her melancholy, for the oment.

"Yes. G-Hound... G-Hound, who acts as Britannia's dog. Their perfidy is manifest once again. Even before this, they would have found any excuse to destroy that which could threaten their hegemony. They are willing to destroy even individuals of their own Federation, should it benefit them in the short term."

But Glemy... yes. "I can believe it," Elisa says. "Many scientists forget that the purpose of our work is to illuminate the way forward. ...Mine, as well, though you will not understand yet. No, not yet."

But Banagher--Banagher brings up a fair question, and Elisa actually smiles. It is a faint smile, and it is not a happy expression. "Yes," she says. "They do. But she has asked it of me, and I cannot deny my Yuliana. If not for her, I would raze their laboratories to the ground, salt the earth of their fields. But she is right. It is not the people who are responsible. ...And so, the people will not be /held/ responsible."

"But in time, when I have secured my Yuliana... Yes. Dr. Devi will be. And her 'friend'."

"My Yuliana," it is nice, that they say it so, "Is safe. So long as she remains at our abode, she will remain safe. Two weeks... I do need a few days," she says.

"I will not slay a single man, woman, or child of the REA, but for those who harm and harmed my Yuliana. ...But I will be there, when you go. I will be watching."

She considers Banagher. "...Yes," she says. "Should they capture your Unicorn, they could do untold harm with it. They must not be allowed to possess it. For this reason, I will not ask more of you than you have given, Banagher Links. This time."

<Pose Tracker> Leina Ashta has posed.

It was a gift, and a precious one, one with a lot of sentiment... but Leina would never, ever, ever blame him for choosing a life over even a precious gift.

That si always the right call in her eyes.

A note of anger enters her voice when it comes to G-Hound, "They're already feeding countless civilians into their war machine right now to uphold that supremacy - and those that cannot be, are simply thrown away like garbage."

Before- "I see, you are a Xenoneurologist after all. I even read some of your published work. I actually found it fascinating, as I've known two Kaiju with human hearts... Even if you think we will not understand, is there anything you can tell us?" Leina inquires, before noting, "You already understand what I've seen myself, far better than I."

Banagher asks a fair question, and Leina already knows the answer, so she falls silent and lets Elisa give the answer herself...

Leina then adds, "Dr. Devi... the one you noted that performs the most painful procedures."

As if, indicating who she is to Banagher, before giving him a sad look as if expanding upon earlier, "It may be hard to believe Banagher, but this is a nation that creates worse people than him, once they climb high enough. These people think this is their duty to torture Cyber Newtypes - or even their subordinates. Then they clock out, go home, and have a pleasant evening with their families."

Leina looks him in the eye as she tells him in no uncertain terms, "It's appalling."

As much as she doesn't want anyone to die, she would not shed tears if Elisa killed Dr. Devi - killed Major Vinh Pham. She would not even protest... she thinks.

Leina then looks forward towards Elisa, and... "I'm glad that she's safe. And I know - I know you'll be watching. I promise I have done everything in my power to emphasize your wishes - but even should someone attempt to go against them..."

Something sharpens in Leina's eyes, "Her friend will not allow any harm to her... and will attempt to protect the Nega-Force as well."

There's a sidelong glance at Banagher, and... a hand upon his arm, as something in her green eyes just softens, "I wish I could say that I'm sad you won't be there Banagher, but to be perfectly honest... I'm glad you won't be. If I can spare you from knowing the true horrors of places like these, then I'll consider myself truly blessed."

<Pose Tracker> Banagher Links has posed.

Leina's anger is so palpable to Banagher. Even though she has twice the knowledge he does, in these areas, he can't help but mirror her fury. For the moment, he simply squeezes her hand, scooting a little closer to her on the bed.

"If I can ask, Dr. Kafim. And it's okay if I can't." Banagher says, slowly, carefully. "What is your work? What is it specifically that you want to illuminate?"

A xenoneurologist? Does Elisa want to revolutionize medicine, or something? He lets Leina speak, nodding to emphasize her words.

Perhaps Elisa was expecting Banagher to look shocked at her response to those who hurt Yuliana, but instead, he seems to half-nod in agreement. "The people who /are/ responsible should be brought to justice. I'm sure the civilians have no idea this is going on. But those doctors and... guards, and whoever else?" His eyes harden, and there's a spike of anger through his bond with Leina. "They need to pay."

"Anyone like that... needs to pay." Banagher murmurs, as Leina describes the people who torture others and go home to their families. "I can't even imagine that kind of cruelty."

Elisa excuses Banagher's absence from the raid, and though the concept of it grinds against his spirit, a little... He smiles. "Thank you, Dr. Kafim. I... don't know what it is you're after. I can't promise anything else. But I don't want your Yuliana to suffer. I don't want anyone to suffer, to be honest. And I'll do whatever I can to protect the people who need me."

Leina earns a litle smile as she touches Banagher's arm. "I've been lucky to have avoided it. But that doesn't mean I want you to have to see all those horrible things either, love. Please, make sure you're never alone in there. And... don't try to take on too much. There's people you can turn to, for gathering information."

<Pose Tracker> Elisa Kafim has posed.

Now, it is Yuliana's! That is a gift, too.

Anger... Yes. Elisa sees it, as well, though she does not 'feel' it in the way that Banagher might. Elisa inclines her head. She knows of this. But the quesiton--what is her work. What can she tell them? They both ask, in their way, and Leina even demonstrates a familiarity with her work. Elisa considers, for a moment.

"We hyperfocus on but one slice of reality, one aspect: the physical realm. But if we study the connections between kaiju and humans--indeed, such as the kaiju with a 'heart', Anti--we can see that there is more than this pittance of reality, more even than the connections between humans such as yours. I believe that the coming of the Zentradi was the turning point in humanity's destiny and the Zentradi's--that together, we can embark upon something greater. If humanity and its allies could unite, think of the boundaries we could push back! The 'Void'--in this 'Void' is the key to the evolution of sentience. But in its current form, it is frightening, and our shared world is unable to receive it. ...That, I believe, is what went wrong with my Yuliana; this world had a greater hold on her than I had realized..."

She trails off. Then she shakes her head. "Regardless."

"These agents of the REA believe that even your 'Newtypes' are ultimately resources to be exploited. I would lift up all life to be able to partake of what is to come."

"Dr. Devi is one of these. But the gifts I have given her will be her undoing. Her rapacious need to fuel her own legend will itself be her destruction." Elisa smiles. She has the normal amount of teeth.

Banagher seems to have the right idea. Elisa nods to him. "They do. Though..." She pauses. "There is one who you can spare. Consider her a 'test run' of retreiving your Alma. I bent her to my service in order to look after Yuliana while she was at the labs, a Dr. Taisiya Petrov. I will release my hold on her. ...She has served her penance; you may have her, and if you can rehabilitate her, whose state is far worse than Alma's, then I will know it is possible and not a cruel vain hope."

"You need not promise me anything. Promises must always be kept, Banagher Links. Always remember that. Promise nothing that you would not give your life to see fulfilled."

She looks to the two of them again. "...It is best, that he will not be there, I think. But I will place my faith in this 'friend' of Yuliana's, as well. I am also looking into finding the Nega-Force... but you may find them before I do. If so, consider their lives second only to Yuliana's in my estimation."

She smiles. She continues to have the normal amount of teeth. "A woman must have friends."

<Pose Tracker> Leina Ashta has posed.

Leina seems mildly startled by the idea she'd met Anti, "I wasn't aware you two had met... it makes sense that you would have."

She does however listen, considering, there's a lot of what Elisa says she'd agree with. It's just the devil is in the details. "I admit, while I'm interested, you're right. I do struggle to understand how it's the key to that evolution- when it seems so hostile. As you noted - she does not like to be disturbed, and the creatures that have come forth have been quite destructive. I'm not casting aspersions on your theory - just agreeing on my own ignorance."

Leina does consider the idea that the world has a greater hold on Yuliana, "That's... interesting, given what she tells me of her pain caused by being between two realities. I would like to ease your Yuliana's suffering if I could."

Leina then looks Banagher's way, and, there's a small nod, "Unfortunately that justice is unlikely to be found in the REA. It would have to be us. To them it would be a waste of resources simply to execute those who evacuated - they'd reassign them somewhere else."

Her eyes give Banagher a meaningful look, "And then the horrors would begin anew. So, would you? Pull the trigger love?"

Leina then looks at Elisa, and suddenly comprehension dawns, "You've given her the crystals to study, and she's not psychically sensitive enough to understand the danger." It's less an accusation, and more just... matter of fact acceptance to that smile with that normal amount of teeth.

Elisa does offer someone and Leina holds her breath as she dares to hope, "Dr. Taisiya Petrov." She echoes, "If you don't mind sending me what you have on her - a photograph or a description of her appearance - I will make every attempt to secure her. And thank you very much. Knowing there's a chance that Alma could be safely returned to us..."

She could teach them a lot in and of herself too... of what Elisa's powers do to someone.

Leina is quick to tell Banagher, "It's okay. ... I know what I'm getting into love. I promise, I won't be going alone, and I won't take everything onto my shoulders on this one."

Leina gives Banagher a lopsided smile, "And I know. In fact - that 'friend' in particular is providing me with quite a lot of information."

She then looks towards Elisa again, and she tries to keep herself from paling at that very normal amount of teeth, "Don't worry, I don't want Yuliana to lose any friends either."

... well maybe parmind- no no that's just an intrusive thought.

<Pose Tracker> Banagher Links has posed.

Banagher pays close attention as Elisa explains her work. "Reality and the Void." He murmurs, thoughtfully. "I wonder what kind of progress it would lead us to. But I do like the idea of everyone uniting together. People need hope, to be able to see a future for themselves. Everyone realizing we all have more in common than we think would be an important step to that, I think."

Banagher wants nothing to do with the Void. He got enough of a taste of it from Yuliana's necklace, from just a touch, /through/ his gloves. A future built on it could only lead to the same misery and suffering. But he's not going to say that until the phone is safely disconnected. Leina is far more practiced at diplomacy.

"Yes, if there's anything we can do to help your Yuliana, please let us know." It isn't a promise, or an offer of help. He's choosing his words /very/ carefully.

Would he pull the trigger? Banagher's eyes widen as he considers it, turned to face Leina fully, in this moment. Could he kill someone? Someone who wasn't even attacking him? Banagher Links, who is so committed to saving lives that even the NT-D controlling him can't make him take a life?

After a long, long moment of hesitation, he leans forward, hiding his face in Leina's shoudler for just a moment. "No, I couldn't."

"She's studying-- Doesn't it hurt her, Dr. Devi, to touch those crystals? When I touched one, I thought I was going to die." He pauses, considering Leina's reaction, and decides not to say anything else, accusing or otherwise.

"Thank you, Dr. Kafim." Banagher echoes Leina, in regard to Dr. Petrov. "Miss Alma's important to all of us. Being given a chance to, um, research how to help her, is a gift. I'm sure everyone will give it their best."

Golden eyes blink at Elisa's advice. "I'll remember. Thank you." Normally, he's quick to make promises, but the way Elisa makes it sound... It's almost mystical. Like a story his mother would've told him, as a child. Something with faeries, or dragons.

"This friend is the..." Banagher leans his head one way, incomprehensible. Somehow, he's able to find sense Leina's response to this. "I'm glad. You're going to need every bit of help you can get in there. I trust you. I know you can do this. And I'll be waiting for you to come back."

Banagher smiles, his eyes so soft. But once he glances back at the screen, at Elisa's Very Normal Smile... He moves just a bit closer to Leina, protectively. "I'm... sure Yuliana's friend will be able to protect all of them. I understand they're really, really strong."

<Pose Tracker> Elisa Kafim has posed.

"Yes," Elisa agrees with Banagher--or does she? She at least seems to agree with some of how to accomplish 'the future'.

As for Anti, well--"Yes. We've made a couple of deals. I wish him well in what he does from here. I was quite interested to see where the 'heart' of a kaiju would lead him..."

But, on the matter of fear--"I thought so," Elisa says. "There are reasons and explanations for much of this... but I do not think you are prepared for them, as you are. And I will not force understanding on you now. Not you who have been and continue to be helpful."

Would be pull the trigger? Hmmmm...

"There is a place for gentleness," Elisa says with another smile.

"I will send you her image and description," Elisa says of Dr. Petrov. "As I said, her condition is rather different from Alma's--and rather more severe. But... as you say. It is a gift. I will remember your deeds."

Promises... are very important.

"As for Dr. Devi," she says, "I gave her more than the crystals. Do not attempt to engage her without me. She could certainly kill you with the Power I have given her. No... I will be her end. As it must be."

That friend... Hmmm.

"Yes," Elisa says, "I hope that this is true. For now... I am tired, and I must continue my work. But good luck, friends of Yuliana."

"I will not forget this."

<Pose Tracker> Leina Ashta has posed.

Anti...

Leina decides she needs to talk to him about this, just to be certain... though, he's gone right now, isn't he?

She agrees with Banagher's ideas more than he can know in this moment, in the unspoken things too.

Leina lets him rest his head there, and she puts an arm around him protectively, "I know. I know." She kisses the side of his head.

Does she want to pull the trigger? No. Not ever.

Would she...?

She knows in her heart the answer is yes.

There is a place for gentleness though, in her life. Banagher and Mineva are evidence of that.

"I appreciate it." She says again, on Dr. Petrov, before her eyes widen in alarm, "Please send me something to identify her as well. I'll have to inform the others. ... If for whatever reason we do not see you, is there any way we can... call you? Minovsky interference could be a problem to just dialing you up."

Leina does tell him one thing, even knowing the context of what Elisa just said - promises must be kept, "I promise, I'll take care of this and come back to you." Leina says quietly, "No matter what."

And perhaps in that moment, it holds power.

"Thank you for your time, and... thank you for saving her." Leina tells Elisa quietly, "I know I don't need to thank you for that, but I will anyway."

Would she be thanking her if she knew what means Elisa used to do it?

that's genuinely hard to say.